Is a multiverse the answer?

[MIDOR]

With He-Skeletor around I began to think.

Thinking about how he came about. I intentionally haven't read it because of the premise of the series. The old "Not my............".

Made me ask the question, all be it in a devil's advocate way tone, of "Is the best and/or the only way to bring in new characters?".

I mean, think about it, all THIS (version of) multiverse seems to be is alt realities.

Why not create new lore?

To me a multiverse doesn't seem to be a good fit for the brand/lore.

[Mechanizor]

I never liked the idea of the multiverse and time travel in MOTU simply because it just creates conflicts and makes more mess, even if the multiverse hypothesis in our reality could actually exist!
The whole idea just comes from lazy conceptual writers who lack fresh imagination to make something new, of course that's just me... So in a sense I agree with you Midor.

MOTU canons and lores don't have to be too complex. Just the basic good vs evil story with magic/technology added to it in a linear fashion could be enough!...
Also the longevity of Eternians could be a lot more than the typical creatures here on Earth or in our galaxy or our own universe, so people and creatures over there could live for centuries and could access linear dimensions with magical spells and/or technologies without having multiple avatars/personalities in those dimensions accessing Eterina willy nilly just to party!

[MIDOR]

1. I don't really have a problem with time travel in MOTU. I guess because I think they handled it well/right.
2. Plausible quite believable. Based on the simple fact that turtles immediately pop into my mind as such an example. Of course assuming your linage didn't get ate up by the Snakemen.

I would accept a:
1. Tales from yesteryear because a journal was found
2. Tales from yesteryear because a long forgotton, destroyed and abandoned city was found. even by accident
3. That adventurer who set out to prove or disprove stories that were passed down or made the circle

over..........

1. It's Randor that's half Gar
2. It's Miro that's half Gar
3. It's Adam that's half Gar

[Mechanizor]

1. I don't really have a problem with time travel in MOTU. I guess because I think they handled it well/right.
2. Plausible quite believable. Based on the simple fact that turtles immediately pop into my mind as such an example. Of course assuming your linage didn't get ate up by the Snakemen.

I would accept a:
1. Tales from yesteryear because a journal was found
2. Tales from yesteryear because a long forgotton, destroyed and abandoned city was found. even by accident
3. That adventurer who set out to prove or disprove stories that were passed down or made the circle

over..........

1. It's Randor that's half Gar
2. It's Miro that's half Gar
3. It's Adam that's half Gar

Yes, I’m with you on that notion of yours but still I’m not a fan of the time travel concept because it’s overdone and boring to me. Again, it all comes to lazy writing and the lack of imagination.
IMHO, less is more when it comes to the MOTU spectrum.
I loved how the 200X/MYP show has handled the mythos without over exaggerating the story telling or making them too dramatic or too dark or too messy to accept!

[1F409]

I'm not familiar with this He-Skeletor thing (a source would've been helpful); but, as for implementing a multiverse, my opinion is this:

Everybody and their brother's done it, already. It's stale. Worse yet, it has become an excuse for weak writing.

We should be against linking all MotU versions in a multiverse; it's fine the way it is, with different age groups preferring different eras. (It's one of the reasons I despise things like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or any other case where modern writers decide that they know better than the original authors, and so should tell the "real" story of how it happened -- the audacity!)

But I fear that by even broaching the topic, we might be putting the idea in the heads of those who run the property. On the other hand, perhaps we should make our voices heard pre-emptively, so as to head it off at the pass.

[Mechanizor]

As I said earlier vaguely, the other dimensions don't have to deal with the same character in different forms/times like different 2-3-4 Teelas, He-Mans Skeletors etc... Where in the multiverse concept the same character usually exists in its own universe, the more universes you have the more of the same character exists!
At least that's how I've interpreted it without reading the multiverse comics yet!

[1F409]

I think we should be wary in what we allow into our entertainment. Consider the fact that I.Q.s have, despite a few peaks, steadily declined since the nineteenth century. That alone means that most writers today aren't nearly qualified to revolutionize sci-fi the way previous generations did -- and I think that shows, in the blasé and often derivative nature of today's concepts. Many of these purported "new" ideas are only new to young audiences, which I'd guess is just another marketing trick to keep the stale franchises afloat.

The more I think about it, the more I believe we really need to take a stand against the debasement of the genre.

[Mechanizor]

Just a side note; I.Q. tests aren't specifically a true measurement of someone's intelligence. Aside from genetics and the physical attributes, environments we live in and we get exposed to and the food we eat and amount of toxins we have in our bodies can have a big effect on how we learn and think.

Plus there is so much for a writer, thinker, or a musician can do or explore without making a mess, that's why "recycling ideas" might be the only way to go, and sometimes they hit it right, but a lot of the times they don't, maybe just enough to pay the bills.

That applies to a lot of the sectors in our daily lives including science, tech and arts.

As for MOTU, Mattel just isn't exploring and finding the right people for this property's progress IMHO, even though it has LOTS of potential to be the best property out there...

[1F409]

Now that I think about it, I'd like to dig deeper into the issue of other dimensions, alternate realities, etc.

At present, I'm trying to wrap my mind around the evolution and variants of the concept...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_universes_in_fiction

[1F409]

This seems to be the dividing line between MotU's interpretation, and more modern ones like the MCU:

While technically incorrect, and looked down upon by hard science-fiction fans and authors, the idea of another "dimension" has become synonymous with the term "parallel universe". The usage is particularly common in movies, television and comic books and much less so in modern prose science fiction.

[Mechanizor]

Now that I think about it, I'd like to dig deeper into the issue of other dimensions, alternate realities, etc.

At present, I'm trying to wrap my mind around the evolution and variants of the concept...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_universes_in_fiction

The real answer for now; no one really knows if such hypothesis could have any merits to it scientifically. There are some mathematical constructs and quantum physics equations alluding to it, but no real evidence has been presented to us, publicly anyways!

I'm somehow a spiritual person (or trying to be) and in that realm of thinking and belief system, I/we believe different dimension/s do exist and can be experienced through meditations, prayers and of course the old simple construct I/we call "belief"... Reality itself is biggest unknown mystery if you think about, so all other concepts could be as well...

[1F409]

The flip side to your first point is that the "real" answer is: regardless of how things actually work scientifically, Eternia and portals and dimensions work the way it shows in the source material. I used to try to square such circles, like dreaming up excuses for why the TARDIS computers are wall-sized -- "Surely, it's because the time-travel computations are so complex!" -- when in reality the first lens I should have been looking through is the one that reveals it was just a 1960s sci-fi TV show.

What's weird is when these retroactive explanations get accepted as canon, sort of painting the franchise into a corner.

[Mechanizor]

The same can be said about those old school looking targeting computer consoles in the Star Wars universe! The new SW movies and their TV series had to adapt to those, so the old original movies will fit without getting too outdated looking! LOL

In our reality we keep saying, what goes around comes around, and history keeps repeating itself!... Probably everything we're experiencing revolves around constant cycles?! ;-b

[1F409]

If we're going to discuss how multiverse-like MotU is, I guess we'd better start by pointing out the examples we know of.

The first and most obvious is He-Man and the Power Sword, in which Skeletor recalls, "Once I lived in another dimension, populated with others of my kind. But when the Great Wars opened a 'hole' in the dimensional wall, I was thrown into this world. With the complete Power Sword, I shall reopen that hole and bring my people here to conquer this dimensional world!"

The next mention of "dimensions" comes in King of Castle Grayskull, describing an effect of Skeletor's energy-blade as, "Mystical forces, created in another dimension, shot from the blade to form a magic lens." (On a related note, once Skeletor has entered Castle Grayskull, he boasts, "The secrets of the universe are now at my command. Soon Eternia and all other worlds will belong to me." Note that the wording isn't "planets", but "worlds" -- this would seem to mesh with his statement in He-Man and the Power Sword.) At the end of the story, the Sorceress states, "I shall send them [the halves of the Power Sword] into another dimension where even clever Skeletor will have great difficulty finding them."

I believe those are the only such mentions in the first wave of mini-comics. The second wave is a bit harder to skim for details, being of a different format. However, off-hand, I can think of one example of another dimension being specifically addressed: The Menace of Trap-Jaw. In that mini-comic, Skeletor says to himself, "Well do I know that there are worlds upon worlds in space and time! [...] I will enter that other dimension, take ten paces forward, and then return to Eternia, where I will reappear inside the walls of Castle Grayskull! / This must succeed the first time, for I may never be able to recreate the spell that allows me to enter this new dimension!" Upon entering the portal, Skeletor then remarks, "What a strange land this is! But behold! So closely is it aligned to Eternia that an image of Castle Grayskull stands before me! / Even here the castle resists me! It will take longer to materialize the mystic portal than I thought..."

The only other mini-comics from the first two waves that I distinctly recall having dealt with portals are The Ordeal of Man-E-Faces and The Terror of Tri-Klops -- the former involving the summoning of a demon, the latter snatching Tri-Klops from elsewhere on Eternia.

[Andy]

There's also Ninjor and Scare Glow..

[1F409]

Good call. In this instance, I wonder whether this shows how much power Skeletor commands, or if the Sorceress had difficulty simply because time travel was involved. (Not that evidence from a different franchise means anything, but in Doctor Who, time travel is extremely advanced, secret technology, and jumping to alternate realities is typically an accident that's hard to reproduce. Contrast that with the GURPS Infinite Worlds setting, where "parachronic" ships are the secret tech allowing alternate realities to invade and sabotage each other in a quiet war for dominance, and time-travel generally isn't a thing.)

As an aside, that mini-comic is drawn by Timm, right? He does a good job making Skeletor's face look menacing -- though giving him the ability to squint kind of changes the notion of his face being an actual skull!

[MIDOR]

This morning I watched Scott's video talking about Classics NA She-Ra.

When I was watching that i thought....I would take, be open to, would respect more, a New Adventures version of Princess of Power then some gender swapped, nationality swapped or color swapped character.

At lest with the former they are trying something different. Trying to tell a story. Whether the former would work is another story for another time and thread.

HECK! As I type all of this, I would take a Pre-Enernia version of POP over a multiverse.

[Mechanizor]

O'm not totally sure who made all those decisions to accommodate to certain viewers, Mattel or Hollywood/Netflix?
But if you didn't know, a bunch (if not many) of Mattel's employees and a large portion of the POP outspoken fans are from the LGBTQ community. Even the producers/animators/directors of that new She-Ra were as such.

I know this because I used to chat about the toy business with a former Mattel lady executive who's a lesbian herself and use to own a nearby restaurant where I live.

[1F409]

Maybe I'm giving in to stereotypes, but I'd say that some tend to have a certain flair for the dramatic, so perhaps it makes sense that there would be a slightly above-average number in creative enterprises. But still, how many are we talking about -- a very large minority, a majority? Perhaps more importantly, why specifically at a toy company? With stuff coming out like "drag queen story hour", this tidbit about Mattel arouses my suspicion.

[Mechanizor]

Hard to tell if you don't work from within!

But from my own experience, I was a bit shocked to know how many "rainbow" toy designers and executives are currently infiltrating the toy business these days or coming out!... I'm guessing it largely comes down to personal connections and preferences!

Even a bunch of the outspoken toy fans and content creators who love the flair and the public attention are from that community... 20-25 years ago wasn't that common but like any other industry, things are changing rapidly, even in the military I assume! ;-b

[Andy]

Midor, I've given this a little bit of thought and I'm still unsure about my answer. Is a multiverse the answer? Is the best and/or the only way to bring in new characters?".

No this isn't the only way to bring in new characters. Not the best way either but it I think it can enhance the lore. They don't always need to crossover either I think because they could be told as stories from the Masters we know.

I like some characters from alternative realities. Like what Marvel did to get Spider-Gwen or Blink from X-Men AoA, Sugarman, Dark Beast. Time displaced young Cy-Clops. I guess if the story is told well enough the characters can be accepted a little better.

Prince Adam version of He-man isn't my favorite. I always liked the jungle tribe He-man and his power vests given to him by the Green Goddess who tamed a big green tiger but now he's just a retconned past He-man. Ya know 🙄 to add to the lore and sell more toys with pre-existing parts.

They essentially called him a new character named Oo-Lar but I still say he's He-man and Adam is the tale being told by his fellow Eternians inspired by Dare's from the far long past transformation into He-ro.

So I dunno, we still get characters like all the new snakemen and hell we somehow got Despera which is pretty well appreciated, so Midor I answer your question with some questions of my own...

what happens if Adam got abducted by Hordak instead of Adora?

What happens if Keldor killed Randor and became rightful ruler after Miro?

What if the snakemen were never locked in the void?

[MIDOR]

I don't know who created the name "oo-larr". Maybe it was Scott. Maybe it wasn't.

I'm pretty sure it's TM'd. I remember people who to go on the interwebs and look for trademarks and what nots in relation to MOTU.

That name (feels like I'm misspelling every time) as I recall got everyone all stirred and riled up. Trying to figure out who it was for and what not.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Scott was the one that came up with and paired the name with Topless He-Man.

[Andy]

Midor's recollection is correct. Some folks thought the TM was a typo for Mo-Larr. I don't know if Scott came up with or not but if he did he probably has spouted off somewheres that it was clever on his part. It's not clever IMO, Mini Comic He-man was savage and not a caveman that was barely able to speak. Anyways, I don't know if it's TM'd still but the MV version was Adam powered up without the sword and was full on rage. No one called him Oo-Lar so maybe Kevin thought it was a stupid name too.

[Mechanizor]

Ok thanks... I mean I can waste my time by looking the name up, but I have a feeling that Scott came up with that Oo-lala (ghrr) after a bed fart during a pillow fight with his wife!
Of course he has this video about him on his channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKL...DLf2y&index=82

[MIDOR]

Hm. Maybe the question should have been: Are multiverses used right?

That I can answer with a bit more confidence. No.

Keldor wasn't meant to have access to the power. To be gifted the power.

Don't turn around and say I know. I know. I know. But what if??? WAIT WAIT WAIT! Hear me out on this....................
or
who are we pulling from a different dimension this week?

[Mechanizor]

To be honest, there are already way too many characters to choose from to translate into toys without relying on the multiverse BS.

I don't know if your aim from your main question is "toy" related or comic/story related?!

I'd rather see Mattel make proper tooling for what they already have in their vast sourcebbok, rather than just stupid and lazy repaints from their multiverse paradoxical mess...

[MIDOR]

The problem I have with the Pre-Eternia/Preternia/whatever characters is they look liked they were slapped together at the last minute by using some leftover parts.

It just looks like poor use of the parts. They look bad. Specifically Terroroar and G'rasp.

Let me get my ice cream scoop out and scrape the bottom of the barrel of character designs

Fever dream designs..

[Mechanizor]

Yeah, that was the real intention from those characters, just part rehash and re-usage.
From what I know they were unreleased vintage characters before the line was discontinued… And that’s why they were finally released as Power-Con exclusives in MOTU Classics by Super7…

[Black Zodac]

I like the concept of the multiverse with MOTU. I don't think it's been executed all that great but I appreciate what they tried to do in the comics.

[MIDOR]

Ok. If the answer is no then I immediately ask......

Then what is the answer?

Concept? If any. If there is there's not going to be many. It helps

contest? Tricky and steep slope. Only so many. Especially when you have to reuse parts.

new faction? Pretty solid option in my opinion.

expanding? Probably the best one inching out the new faction option.

cartoon? decent option. Get a handful of characters out of it.

[Mechanizor]

Ok. If the answer is no then I immediately ask......

Then what is the answer?

Concept? If any. If there is there's not going to be many. It helps

contest? Tricky and steep slope. Only so many. Especially when you have to reuse parts.

new faction? Pretty solid option in my opinion.

expanding? Probably the best one inching out the new faction option.

cartoon? decent option. Get a handful of characters out of it.

If I was part of Mattel's MOTU team, I'd defiantly look into adding a new era like the NA era and/or new factions; good and bad that could include aliens from other planets/galaxies, or ancient/futuristic insectoids, aquatics, mechanical/symbiotic life forms and so on.

I loved the direction of the CGI show, but if the animated characters were inline with the normal aesthetics and proportions, it would've probably attracted more adult based audience, thus more Origins potential products would've find their spot in the line.

The main question is; how much Mattel is willing to spend on this property and on Origins specifically?

[MIDOR]

You said a couple things that made me think.

Insectoids and spend.

For an "insectoid" buck that's going to cost a pretty penny right? You can't get away with that.

Are they willing to spend the $ for that new insectoid body? probably not. would be nice to be proven wrong.

Which reminds me when Super 7 saying they found new unused bucks then it became unused limbs. Then it got reeeeaaaallll quiet. Never really heard much.

That was interesting. There were your possibilities if any or all of that was true. There was your hope for expansion, new characters.

Barely heard anything. NOW. As the license moved away from Super 7 you got to think that was all just fluff. Bluster.

Because if it's true then didn't they, Super 7, use it? Didn't have time? Lost the license before they could?

If it is true then why hasn't Mattel used it?

[Mechanizor]

You said a couple things that made me think.

Insectoids and spend.

For an "insectoid" buck that's going to cost a pretty penny right? You can't get away with that.

Are they willing to spend the $ for that new insectoid body? probably not. would be nice to be proven wrong.

Which reminds me when Super 7 saying they found new unused bucks then it became unused limbs. Then it got reeeeaaaallll quiet. Never really heard much.

That was interesting. There were your possibilities if any or all of that was true. There was your hope for expansion, new characters.

Barely heard anything. NOW. As the license moved away from Super 7 you got to think that was all just fluff. Bluster.

Because if it's true then didn't they, Super 7, use it? Didn't have time? Lost the license before they could?

If it is true then why hasn't Mattel used it?

A mold is a mold, and it would cost as much as any of the remaining vintage characters would cost; more or less! Remember that many of those figures still require almost an entire new tooling, like Rotar, Blast Attak and Rokkon... At lease with the insectoids, they could reuse most of their parts many times over like what they did with the Snake Men.

Mantenna's buck alone has a great starting point to make a plethora of Insectoid characters!

Mattel is a multibillion dollar company, and they do have the resources, and MOTU is their own IP nonetheless... And the magical thing about MOTU is, it has all the elements to expand its toy lines way beyond the sword and sorcery.

If I had the resources, space, time and the commitment, I could build an entire great looking universe with a property like MOTU.

[MIDOR]

(begin smart ACE mode) Got a better idea. What if just rip-off the Sectaurs line. Just put the Sectaurs on the He-Man buck. (end smart ACE mode).

[Mechanizor]

(begin smart ACE mode) Got a better idea. What if just rip-off the Sectaurs line. Just put the Sectaurs on the He-Man buck. (end smart ACE mode).

I thought of that before and I'm sure many companies thought of it as well since bugs and dinosaurs are among the best sellers in all type of formats...

We already have Buzz-Off, Mantenna and Webstor as representatives of the insect people in the property, and it's just so easy to tool an extra couple of bucks and armors with additional limbs, and then do a bunch of mix and match to create some new characters.

Of course adding hive-/nest like playsets and a couple of vehicles like the Bashing Beetle and whatnot will add a lot of play/display value to the line.

[Andy]

I meant the concepts for MotU had plenty of potential for more characters. Look at the Power & Honor Book. maybe SDCC art book . I think both had concepts.

One had the witch that I guess is now a part of Pre-Eternia or whatever My bug suggestion was just another faction like the snakemen. Just suggesting they tied to Wrap Trap somehow.

[MIDOR]

Thought you was talking to me Mech.

[Mechanizor]

Andy, I have that P&H foundation book and I guess I know what you’re talking about now. As for the bug faction suggestion, it’s pretty much what I had in mind more or less; if you read my previous posts.

Midor, you’re an anomaly from another dimension!

[MIDOR]

The thoughts of parts reuse made me remember someone.

Hans Hammer Holder.

Use the Ram Man buck as it was envisioned and then make a band of warrior dwarves.

I suppose each using the Ram Man buck and each coming with his own unique hammer.

[Mechanizor]

Ram Man’s buck can easily also be reused for Trolls and Ogres type of creatures.

[Andy]

The reuse is still kinda limited to the torso arms and feet but I agree even though I still want a Sagitar. That widebody (Ram Man/Tuskador) buck could also give us proper 200x Whiplash, Tung Lashor, and Clawful.

[Mechanizor]

Ram Man's buck could work well if they take the jumping action feature out... However, if you'e looking for a proper reuse of a bigger buck in the line, look no further than the Origins WWE's Andre the Giant:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.toyark.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F4%2F2021%2F04%2FMOTWWEU-Wave-7-Andre-The-Giant-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=ee3d32765c8a2dd1bbe78931b9d9c5e208e818d9411943da03bd5b3b175e184b&ipo=images

[Andy]

Ram Man's buck could work well if they take the jumping action feature out...

I agree that the Ram Man buck should be utilized and I'm surprised they haven't reused Andre yet. Either way though Mech,, I think the Micheline Man tire legs have got to go.

I did a quick mock up of a troll for you guys.

[Mechanizor]

Well done.

[Andy]

Here's a giant for you from the Andre buck..

[Andy]

I had to make him not look like Andre but now he looks like Luke Harper. Anyways, glad you like

[MIDOR]

Well, now that you mention it Andy. It does look like him.

[Mechanizor]

I had to google Luke Harper to find out who he is... And yes I definitely can see the resemblance! LOL

[Andy]

It all Midor's fault.

What about Warriors of Middle-Eternia?

Tytus and Megator need some buddy's. I think that they're bucks have some reuse possibilities.

[MIDOR]

The ABC giants.

Off I hand I couldn't you their names. Didn't even think they had names.

All I know with out looking is that one begins with A, one begins with B and the last one begins with C.

[Andy]

I had to look those up.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1292911/trivia/?ref_=tt_trv_trv

[Mechanizor]

These look great...

But yes, the ABC giants from the MYP cartoon are among my all time favorites from that 200X era. I was sooo disappointed that we didn't have the chance to see them in action-figure form in Classics!

I doubt that we'll ever see them in Origins, unless Megator and Tytus become very successful sellers, then maybe, just maybe there is a chance for the ABC dudes to find themselves in Origins!

[Andy]

What about Mortal Middle-Eternia vs Metal Middle-Eternia?

[Andy]

Damn now I want the third giant and a few other of the concept characters. They can all be a part of Middle-Eternia..

https://youtu.be/IBRzw2lDY50

From the Power & Honor Foundation Catalog

5:34 Knight & Wizard
7:04 Steel-Kill
8:26 Torton

Also the King of Styxx/Skeleton King from Mark Taylor

https://www.figurerealm.com/customfigure?action=view&id=110970

[MIDOR]

Today I stumbled across 4 month old video today talking about multiverses. Specifically if we live in one.

It was one of those quick and over simplified versions narrated by an average joe.

his answer was yes and no.

for short video is was kind of interesting.

his basic explanation was each universe was in its own pocket. Which makes sense to me. If I had to put a textbook example to "multiverse" that would be it.

But all that did is made think and compare the word Multiverse and the practice of what was/is done in the Multiverse comic to like what skeletor did and alt reality.

Then that just makes my think that they are trying to give "multiverse" a meaning. Using it to combine and replace alt reality and/or different dimension.

Then it made me think of how to describe this He-Man multiverse. It's alt reality. Should have realized it sooner.