New 2015 Subscription tactics?... Check this one out:

[Darkliger]

Out of curiosity I clicked on the Sub with quarterly shipping. With the standard monthly shipping they charge for the sub and a temp charge for the first figure. With the quarterly shipping the temp charge you for the first quarter worth of figures (around $175)...... is that really necessary.? I also get the feeling the Kowl is up as a scare tactic. It' like "Hey guys better get your subscription now before they all gone!!". Have I just been jaded from dealing with Matty Collector for so long?

[_RZ_]

Out of curiosity I clicked on the Sub with quarterly shipping. With the standard monthly shipping they charge for the sub and a temp charge for the first figure. With the quarterly shipping the temp charge you for the first quarter worth of figures (around $175)...... is that really necessary.? I also get the feeling the Kowl is up as a scare tactic. It' like "Hey guys better get your subscription now before they all gone!!". Have I just been jaded from dealing with Matty Collector for so long?

Maybe that quarterly charge is so customers will realize they are being charged a big amount quarterly? I don't know, personally I would only go with quarterly shipping if I was OK with missing something; It's gone well so far it seems from people who chose it this year, but DR have had issues in the past of messing up stuff like this. Of course Kowl is just there to further scare people or take advantage of their OCD.

As for the messing with Matty with that kinda big amount, they just might pursue some type of legal action against you for not sticking with your commitment as stated in the contact that you cannot cancel once you sign up, of course there could be a decent loophole to get out of it other than "I lost my credit card" type of claim! However if let's say a 1000+ of customers do the same trick, I doubt Mattel would waste their legal money to track all those claims!

As an individual, it is very, very easy to cancel your subscription at any time. And it is not against the law and you will suffer no repercussions from it. All that mumbo jumbo is to scare you into not canceling. You don't even have to cancel your card.

I did it years ago with my first sub- they wouldn't ship to the right address and I had enough. Simply call your credit card company and say you no longer wish to authorize purchases from Digital River. You don't even have to give a reason. DR is considered by most major banks a "security risk" and they will usually do it within 24hrs. Matty will give up on your card after 2-4 months if not sooner (they tried to keep charging me for 2 months after without success.) If you try to do a day-of sale later on from them, or subscribe again another year like I did, your cc company will call you and ask if you are authorizing the charges; at that time you can take off your ban of DR and you're good to buy again, if you wish.

People supposedly did this a lot in 2013, after King He-Man and Fang Man shipped, they cancelled their sub, having gotten Ram Man, Jitsu, already.

I think it's fine to cancel subs, but ordering 1000s just to prank them… that I think is a scummy move.

[Shawn]

I'm still on the fence my self. That jeopardy music is still playing in my head. What are good reasons TOO SUB for someone who would LOVE to be a completionist, but can't because previous figures cost too much? I have all the first year and the have subbed the last couple, but have MASSIVE holes, whole years (2010-2012) that might never be filled like Shadow Weaver and Fisto being the most painful. Why should I sub? I "want" to because I can, but I don't know that it's smart or worth the money/pain.

If I did I was thinking of going with the quarterly option, but if they are CHARGING for the whole quarter up front, that would turn me off. I think it might just be a hold to verity the funds and only the $26 is actually charged like the monthly. IDK, but that would be my guess.

You won't be called that by me. I've subbed before. We should all do what we want, and what makes us happy. You want the stands and are happy with what you're getting, that's cool.

We all have our levels of tolerance and what we are willing to put up with morally with this stuff. I have friends who would never, ever buy a Mattel product, because of their past dishonesty and hazardous products, etc. I have friends who collect but would never, ever collect a new or modern toy, only vintage- again for moral/ethical reasons.

It's when you think something is morally wrong, but you pull the trigger and buy it anyway, that is where the gray line starts and things become difficult. Your own personal wants vs. your own personal code, no one can or should dictate these things to you.

These are toys and they make us happy. No one likes to be told what they are doing is bad. No one! But if you know your purchase encourages behavior you despise, then that is when thought is required. It's a little tough to stomach things when, for example, someone rants all week about how, say, Best Buy is an evil corporation, but then goes there on Saturday afternoon and buys a new TV because it was $5 off. They don't even out- it's just hypocritical.

For me, I have no problem with fellow fans, and I myself buy a few MOTUC as they come out or from re-sellers, or from the site- but I don't think it's morally right to sub anymore, I just think it perpetuates a morally bankrupt system at this point that takes advantage of us so a few scumbag dudes in California can buy a new iPhone or whatever trite object is cool this week.

I find different people's morality very interesting, especially in regards to toys as i personally find it hypocritical (my self included!) that we support a business model and complain about "morality" when these are essentially being manufactured by slaves...That is all products really. The modern world is what it is, one not of our own making. I find that people who don't buy this or that to satisfy their conscience , more often then not do so MORE to inflate their ego. What they out to be saying is "Oh, I'm a better person because I don't support blood diamonds" because they could give a **** about dead Africans. We are all hypocrite, especially me I'm a christian I'm not supposed to judge people Morality is a big issue, that is messy and complicated. Most people don't REALLY want to think about that type of difficult questions...and most of the few that act like they do, just want to play pretend. Not that I have any answers my self: I'm just a commentator "just sayin"

Your own personal wants vs. your own personal code, no one can or should dictate these things to you.

Agreed. So much in life is subjective, especially in regards to morality. That's why Game of Thrones is so popular, "good guys vs bad guys" is a way a child thinks. We should really think for our selves, discuss what we find to be morally reprehensible and discuss why we feel so without the worry that we are being judged, or feeling the NEED to take side. I've no use for scapegoats or straw men.

And I agree with my fellow forum members. A "matty apologist" is someone who will do just about anything to stand up for Mattel's dubious practices. They lie, trick and troll fellow fans just to make way for more lying and incompetence from Mattel/Scott's part.

And because I know I'm a hypocrite I also feel THIS is true. The type you describe are truly FEW in number. Indeed THEY are more loud then they are numerious. They know who they are. We know who they are. Their lies are so transparent, that everyone can see the emperor doesn't just not have any clothes on, he is in a three way with the Invisible Man and Sue Storm

I don't see it in you Novelty, so rest assured you're not an apologist.

As for "dirty subber" I agree with _RZ_, you do whatever you want and be happy with it. But be warned that by doing so you're setting yourself to get screwed by Mattel, just take the NA Skeletor shoulder issue as the latest example.

Personally I can't support/tolerate that kind of behavior, and that's why I don't sub and probably won't be buying any more figures...

That's because Novelty is an honest person. Honesty, truly being honest especially with one self, is the mark of a GOOD PERSON. When we are honest with each other, we can be friends and friendly with people who hold different points of view. We don't get angry and defensive because we disagree. But I don't have to tell YOU GUYS this. Nope: I'm saying all this to those that lurk.

To each his own. For me, the things I will do (and won't do) morally, are more important that having a complete collection. And I couldn't justify being critical online of Scott and Mattel when I'm giving them my credit card to sub, knowing what's been said and the past actions, because in effect I would be funding and further encouraging that mess. I can't justify that after last year's games and this year's disrespect.

Speaking only for my self: this is what I feel. But then I also want more toys...I'm still undecided if I will sub up.

I will buy them as I want them, but I don't think giving Scooter my blind support is worth it, even if I do get that Dragstor figure. If I want complete vintage collection, then I can buy the vintage line. I don't think letting a company take advantage of you in the name of OCD is a good idea. But that's me. To each their own.

I like that point about wanting the vintage line. I just picked up a Blast Attak at a vintage toyshop for $10 and I often wonder if just having my vintage toys would make me MORE happy then continuing to support something that brings me such grief. If I'm not going to get a Shadow Weaver (and others due to crazy high prices) I might as well just go back to the original stuff

[Novelty]

That's because Novelty is an honest person

Thanks LFE. It's not so much honest as Aspergers. C'est la vie! And since LFE said I'm honest it must be true 200x was probably my motu 'dark age' - the toys weren't readily available and I spent a lot getting them from "resellers". I think I paid way too much for them. Fast forward to 2008, I heard about King Grayskull but was disappointed that they wouldn't ship to me. That got me angry but I made myself the promise that I'm not gonna get the line unless I could get it easily. I'm not gonna support some reseller who's gonna buy the toy and jack up the price and get me all angry again. Well, Toygurl announced that from He-Man onwards they'll ship internationally, so I got into the line, at fist with 2 figures each - one to open, one for MOC. It was touch and go before the subs, with dented cards (no shipping box) and website ip lockouts, but with persistence I manage to get everything. My friend in SD who went for SDCC that year had a spare Grayskull for sale, so I bought that - it's the only figure I got from a third party (with the exception of BA Faker, which I got from TRU, but that's a TRU exclusive, so it doesn't count). I've subbed every year and get this, it's actually cheaper for me per figure to get 3 subs delivered to me on express than it does to get one figure delivered within the US. I've subbed every year for 3 subs and thanks US customers for subsidising my shipping ???????????? I do want a fourth Fisto and a fourth Whiplash for customising, but because of my promise to myself, I haven't got any. So to summarise - why I won't buy MotUC from a 3rd party: 1. It's cheaper per figure for me to get it from matty 2. I don't want to encourage resellers 3. It's to save me money so that I don't overspend and go crazy buying figures And that's the answer to LFE's question. Sorry if I rambled.

[barrasco]

Are you still debating if you should buy a sub?

[Shawn]

Well you make a great case. If my ass is going to be taken for, I at least want dinner first

[barrasco]

Ah! You're making humor at the expense of the humorist. Very well put!

I like it.

[Novelty]

Get the sub if you are a collector who wants everything and won't mind any era but beware of potential shipping and taxes charges. Don't be forced to get a sub for one or two figures - that's not worth it. Just cherry pick or buy/pre-order from a third party if that's the case.

[Shawn]

Thanks LFE. It's not so much honest as Aspergers. C'est la vie! And since LFE said I'm honest it must be true

I've recently been wondering where I might score on the spectrum... People with Aspergers are often "too honest" and have a difficulty with deception right? That doesn't sounds like a bad thing to me!

[QUOTE=Novelty;n20330]
200x was probably my motu 'dark age' - the toys weren't readily available and I spent a lot getting them from "resellers". I think I paid way too much for them. Fast forward to 2008, I heard about King Grayskull but was disappointed that they wouldn't ship to me. That got me angry but I made myself the promise that I'm not gonna get the line unless I could get it easily. I'm not gonna support some reseller who's gonna buy the toy and jack up the price and get me all angry again. Well, Toygurl announced that from He-Man onwards they'll ship internationally, so I got into the line, at fist with 2 figures each - one to open, one for MOC. It was touch and go before the subs, with dented cards (no shipping box) and website ip lockouts, but with persistence I manage to get everything. My friend in SD who went for SDCC that year had a spare Grayskull for sale, so I bought that - it's the only figure I got from a third party (with the exception of BA Faker, which I got from TRU, but that's a TRU exclusive, so it doesn't count). I've subbed every year and get this, it's actually cheaper for me per figure to get 3 subs delivered to me on express than it does to get one figure delivered within the US. I've subbed every year for 3 subs and thanks US customers for subsidising my shipping ???????????? I do want a fourth Fisto and a fourth Whiplash for customising, but because of my promise to myself, I haven't got any. So to summarise - why I won't buy MotUC from a 3rd party: 1. It's cheaper per figure for me to get it from matty 2. I don't want to encourage resellers 3. It's to save me money so that I don't overspend and go crazy buying figures

You have that international shipping to contend with. Even google Maps has a hard time pin pointing your location Shipping can't be cheep from America to you? Plus with SDCC King Grayskull,
wasn't Mattel's reason the electronics and international law or some such?

1. that's hilarious.

2. ...But tou make a distinction between people who sell and The Evil Scalpors right? IMO it's an important distinction to make.

3. Considering how big your collection must be (all your toys considered) I don't even WANT to think what you consider "overspend and go crazy buying figures" LOL :P

And that's the answer to LFE's question.

Indeed. Who doesn't love to learn more about their friends?

Sorry if I rambled.

Rambled? OK...Your mocking me aren't you :P

[Novelty]

Better take this to private chat to continue so that we don't pollute the timeline or something. I'm not sure I want to face the wrath of khan aka Cpt. Atkin

[_RZ_]

find different people's morality very interesting, especially in regards to toys as i personally find it hypocritical (my self included!) that we support a business model and complain about "morality" when these are essentially being manufactured by slaves...That is all products really. The modern world is what it is, one not of our own making. I find that people who don't buy this or that to satisfy their conscience , more often then not do so MORE to inflate their ego. What they out to be saying is "Oh, I'm a better person because I don't support blood diamonds" because they could give a **** about dead Africans. We are all hypocrite, especially me I'm a christian I'm not supposed to judge people Morality is a big issue, that is messy and complicated. Most people don't REALLY want to think about that type of difficult questions...and most of the few that act like they do, just want to play pretend. Not that I have any answers my self: I'm just a commentator "just sayin"

Personally man, I don't think that's the case at all- especially in this situation.

I think maybe that might be true for some people- I'm talking about those who use their morals to show off to others as you mention above here. We all know that one co-worker or relative who wants to make their eating habits or political views, or religion, or whatever, into a show-off contest of who is more righteous; who is a "better person." But I don't think that ALL or even MOST of people who take political or social action based on their own moral compass are doing so for selfish reasons… most people do it because they believe it to be the right thing. I think that idea or thought - that taking a moral stand isn't about the topic at hand, and that is it about elitism or some type of ego trip- is something a lot of political pundits in the US and Europe try to make on TV and unfortunately it has seeped into our world at large, as a way to "deflect" criticism at those who are knowingly doing the wrong thing. All one really has to do is look at old US TV shows with commercials from the 70's and 80's on YouTube to see how our attitudes about moral stances and issues have changed. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a worker's union on TV in the US? When was the last time you not for profit program geared at kids? I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole of discussion on this topic, but it's only been the last twenty or so years that taking a moral stance on an issue- be it socio-political or simply "I won't shop at this store anymore" - has made that person an egoist, a nutcase, or simply crazy. Why is that, and why does it extend even into hobbies?

I don't think EVERYONE is a hypocrite. Not everyone ignores their moral code when it benefits them personally. Just because something makes money, it does not justify the action. Everyone judges everyone else- it's a part of human existence. It's how you judge others and why and what for that counts. Being fair and trying to see things from that persons perspective goes a long way. And I also think that just because someone is religious, they don't necessarily have the monopoly on morality.

Without getting too deep down more rabbit holes here, let's keep it MOTU. I think there are a subset of MOTU fans who feel that the more they buy, the more money they spend, the better they are than others… I know someone who could recite the plots of most episodes of POP from memory and remembers a lot of the obscure Filmation characters, but she doesn't own a single piece of merchandise beyond the DVDs, that she throws on every time little kids come to her house. Does that make her less of a fan than the guy who got into MOTUC in 2012 and buys 5 subs and posts daily on the fan forums? I had a gigantic carded vintage collection in the 90's- but had to sell them all as the years went on. I didn't even take pictures of my collection back then. Does that make me a better fan than someone who has a lone carded Beast Man, who takes pictures and puts them on Instagram daily?

The world is totally of our own making. While to some extent this statement Shawn makes is true- many of the things in today's world are the result of our parent's actions or their parent's actions- we create the world we live in every day, with what we say, do and spend our money on. We can pass the buck as much as we want, but we do have the power to change things, if we want to. Change always requires sacrifice. No change just "happens". We as fans need to stop justifying and start taking hard looks at ourselves and our actions. That doesn't mean berating people who subscribe on Facebook, and it doesn't mean pretending that your subscription or desire for more toys is noble in any way. Some things are simply wrong to do, full stop. Taking candy from babies is bad; being violent with others is bad; and lying to customers is bad. It doesn't matter if it is profitable- it's just wrong. We as humans don't like it when others lie or take advantage of us. We as human beings in the modern world have placed honest and integrity in business as an ideal for hundreds upon hundreds of years, across languages and cultures. It was a major focus of our grandparents and great-grandparents generations worldwide, beyond the 2 world wars. People fought and died for the consumer and employee rights that the western world enjoys and erodes with each passing decade. The modern world that is owned by big business would like to make that part of recent history go away, just as American schools in the 80's wanted to make Vietnam go away. They don't want to talk about it because then, we will forget all about it, and no one will even know it is being taken away from them. Trust and responsibility in industry is paramount to the survival of the western world. It is how we put a man on the moon, how we cracked international and language barriers, and why we can use lasers to shoot into the human body and fix things. We can do these amazing things today because we were honest with ourselves and others. That trust allows us to do amazing things in this world- for ourselves and others.

In the US in specific, we had HUGE upheaval in the business world in the first fifty years of the 20th century, because large companies treated customers and employees with complete lack of respect for their lives and well-being. People demanded consumer protections, and fought hard to make sure that corporations didn't take advantage of their customers. They didn't want companies selling food to sell dirty or spoiled food (which they did) they didn't want plastic companies to use toxins that hurt the consumer (because they did exactly that) and the people didn't want to be lied to or taken advantage of by snake oil salesmen-type tactics (which is how advertising was used!) These are all facts, and not personal choices. They're not political talking points, they're not opinions, and they're not flexible. It is what happened and as the old saying goes, history repeats itself. Companies did this, and still do when left to their own devices. And our beloved He-Man is a big part of that history, as we all know, and changed the world of children on Earth forever. Lou Scheimer and others tried to counter that pure greed push, and tempered it with universal morality so that our generation- the thirty somethings and forty somethings of today- could see through the adverts and "me generation" that was developing and give us all a brain to use and decide for ourselves what is right and wrong.

Because, like it or not, believe it or not, If we continue to allow that honest discourse between customer and company to erode, as we have with MOTUC and Scott, we are simply making things worse for tomorrow in trade for toys today.

As for Mattel and child labor and such… all products made in factories are not exploitative. And not all toy or electronic factories are exploitative either. Mattel has made huge changes since the tragedies of 2007-2008 as has overseas factory culture. There are of course a lot of bad operators out there, and there is a lot of horrible stuff going on (especially with electronics and mobile device batteries) but it isn't fair to say "everything" as that isn't accurate.

2. ...But tou make a distinction between people who sell and The Evil Scalpors right? IMO it's an important distinction to make.

I think you bring up a really, really good point here: the secondary market. For MOTUC I saw a huge jump in interest once everything started "selling out" and going up on eBay for $50+ a figure. It brought in a lot of modern action figure collectors who really didn't care about He-Man or 4H stuff, they saw dollar signs. Many fans who were disappointed with 200x (be it the articulation or the style of sculpt) seemed to come on then too, and I think all of the interest created a "MOTU bubble" that lasted a couple of years, creating a false conception with both Mattel and the secondary market that MOTU is bigger than it is. I think the bottom fell out around Man-E-Faces and the end of the larger runs and reissues. And I saw a lot of the people reselling- as opposed to "scalpers"- drop out then. Now we have sub hounds- guys who sub just to have stuff to make a profit on, but they're not really thinking logically and they're only making tens of dollars when all is said and done. Now I know a lot of people like to puff their chests and pretend they're successful selling these things for big money, but for every Fisto there's two Karatis or other stuff that doesn't move even at half of cost. If you're buying something at retail price, and guys like BBTS are getting wholesaler deals, you can't really compete, so why bother? Leave the selling to the professionals. I've been on all sides of the coin- from selling the extras to fund my collecting, to getting wholesale accounts for my old eBay and Amazon stores, to working for formal retailers and comic shops. If you have to go to a store to buy and it's full price, you're not really making real money and you're better off just getting a second job or something if you want money. Ask all those dudes from the 90's with baseball cards and lenticular comics how they did. I mean, there are a lot of old adages the old timers told me when I was collecting as a teen back in the day that still ring true, like anything that says "collector's edition" usually won't be worth anything; or that gold is always a better investment than keeping a carded action figure in your closet for twenty years, because tastes change and what is cool in 1994 isn't always what is cool in 2014.

I still see people talking about their MOTUC collections as some type of retirement fund. Look, collect because you want to collect, not because they are "worth money." No modern toys are ever going to be worth the money that the vintage stuff was in the boom years of the 90's-00s. I know that people don't like to hear that, but then again no one likes to be told what they are doing is wrong. There are too many made to even play at that type of thinking. I think we'd all be better off if the reselling stopped, as it inflates the demand beyond reasonable numbers (guys buying twenty subs to resell, c'mon) and creates a "wall of overpriced toys" which bars newcomers from the line, keeps shop owners from ordering new product.

What do I mean by the "Wall of Overpriced Toys"? We've all seen it before, be it in a little toy shop, or a comic book store… I even see them now on eBay and Amazon. The shop (or website, or seller, etc.) will have an incredible selection of toys available to buy, but everything is really expensive. "Wow, they have Teela; damn, she's $350." "Awesome, they have Shadow Weaver…. argh, she's $800!" So the seller thinks interest is low, when in fact, he's just trying to get too much for what he's trying to sell. But he has to sell it at that price to make a profit, because he bought five subs and no one would buy the Star Sisters even at a discount. Or they are greedy. Or, they just don't pay attention to the market. Usually The Wall comes because of scalpers. The shop owner is scalping or buying from scalpers. Since scalpers buy at retail, their costs are far above those who buy wholesale. So everything will be a lot more than say, someone selling their personal collection. And since they're too expensive, they never sell, and since they never sell, the "interest" in the line goes down.

Get the sub if you are a collector who wants everything and won't mind any era but beware of potential shipping and taxes charges. Don't be forced to get a sub for one or two figures - that's not worth it. Just cherry pick or buy/pre-order from a third party if that's the case.

I 100% agree Novelty. The sub is for those who are all in and want most of everything. If you hate NA or POP or whatever, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. If you're subbing to resell, you're not really making a good profit, and you are better off getting a second job or investing in gold or something with a legitimate return instead of imaginary. Just do the numbers- unless you're keeping some of the figures for customs or yourself, you're just not going to make a profit until you get into five, six or more subs, and at that point, you've got the money to drop on something like gold whatever. The problem is, though, that the company selling these things doesn't consider a few sales valuable; they'd rather have all of your money, or none of it. So for guys like me, I'm being told I either have to do Mattel's work for them and sell online too, or my collecting dollars aren't worth it anymore. The surcharges to sell online just aren't worth it for items under $50 to me anymore, they take too much surcharge and stuff sells for so much less than it used to. It's better for me to work a little overtime and just buy it online. Or just wait a year and get it for half price or less. I've only missed one or two figures that way, despite the fear mongering from other fans. No way am I going to waste an entire afternoon or evening listing stuff on eBay for like $20-50 profit, if that. What a waste of time, for me anyway.